Report of the Royal Commission on the practice of subjecting live animals to experiments for scientific purposes : with minutes and evidence and appendix / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of her Majesty.
- Great Britain. Royal Commission on Vivisection (1875)
- Date:
- 1876
Licence: Public Domain Mark
Credit: Report of the Royal Commission on the practice of subjecting live animals to experiments for scientific purposes : with minutes and evidence and appendix / presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of her Majesty. Source: Wellcome Collection.
Provider: This material has been provided by Royal College of Physicians, London. The original may be consulted at Royal College of Physicians, London.
38/1052 (page 8)
![Sir G. Burrows, Bart., 31.1). 5 July 1875. be one that would, to a certain extent at any rate, command the respect and confidence of scientific men. I do not think, for example, that the Attorney- General prosecuting, or the action of the Home Secretary, would alone be sufficient, unless the scientific Avorld could be assured that that legal functionary or that minister of state had been pro- perly advised upon the matter. I think that the scientific world would think it a great hardship if they were to be restrained, unless they were restrained by some one who really had a competent knowledge to enable him, to know when he ought to exercise that authority. 166. But supposing that that legal functionary, or minister of state, acted under responsibility and with the highest professional advice, you would consider that that was a proper sanction ?—Yes ; but I do not know whether there would be any security that • he Avould have competent scientific advice; that is the danger. You see if you take a gentleman occupying the high ■ position of a Secretary of State for the Home Department, there is nobody, so far as I know, in that office to advise him on euch subjects at all; and he would naturally, when a question of this nature came before him, go home and send for his general practitioner, Mr. A, B, or C, and ask him what he thought about the matter. I should not say that that was competent advice. 167. You would think it ought to be responsible advice ?—Yes; I think there should be some person to advise him, having functions somewhat analogous to the Inspector of Anatomy. Anatomy in this country was at one time conducted in the most scandalous and disgusting manner in every way ; and now the anatomical schools are conducted in a totally different way. There are certain places licensed for dissection, and the Inspector of Anatomy has the ])ower of going in at any time to see that everything is conducted with propriety, and to examine the book in which a record of all tlie bodies is' entered, and the circumstances where they come from, and so on, and also that the remains of the bodies- are pro- perly interred ; and it seems to me that there might be either the Inspector. of Anatomy, or an officer having analogous functions, Avith reference to these physiological experiments; somebody who Avould be called upon to investigate the matter, to send in a written report; and upon which written report tiie Secretary of State, or other authority, would act. Then if the action be called in question, there Avould be a document from a person competent to give informa- tion on the subject, to satisfy the scientifiq world that there was nothing arbitrary or captious in the pro- ceeding. I think that if the legislation proposed were that the Secretary of State for the Home Department should not have the power of interdicting or allowing these things Avithout the scientific world and the Avorld at large knoAving that he had taken pains to obtain advice, and that adAace could .be brought forward if called for, that would be much more satisfactory than leaving it to the ipse dixit of the Secretary of State. 168. There were difficulties formerly in regard to anatomy, I understand you ?—-Very great difficulties. 169. And you say that the practice was in some cases scandalous ?—Yes. 170. Which has been remedied ?—Yes, by the Anatomy Act. J 71. The same general course of proceeding which has overcome the difficulties in regard to anatomy is what you would suggest with regard to the difficulties of the present case ?—I think they might be overcome in that Avay. What I think is that there should be some kind of competent authority, such an one as would • command respect, so that one could say, This is not a captious system, but it is founded on 'proper information, and Avhich could be produced to the scientific world, and so that the Secretary of State could say, This is the information which I have before me, and I exercise my judgment upon this information. 172. So long as it was a responsible opinion founded upon proper professional warrant and infor- mation, you would see no objection to the interference of the Secretary of State ?—I think not. But another ■ thing strikes me. Of course, in a country like our own, Avhere the Government changes from time to time, and the men who occupy high offices pass through them, one first and then another, one man may have prejudices one way, and another another; and if the advance of physiology is to be dependent upon the feelings or opinions of an individital, I think that would be very unfortunate. I think that there should be some officer or person appointed, who is a fit person, a good anatomist and a physiologist himself, and Avho is competent to form an opinion, and that his opinion should be given to the Secretary of State ; and that this individual should be a permanent officer as long as he'conducted himself properly; quamdiu se bene gesscrit; but I think it Avould never do to leave it to a gentleman occupying the position of Secretary of State unless he had good information to guide him. 173. { Sir John Karslakc.) I understand that you would rather suggest that a person who wished to carry out these experiments should make application to the Secretary of State, who should refer his appli- cation at once to such an officer as you have men- tioned. Would that be the process ?—There might be certain places licensed for the performance of physiological experiments, as you have certain places licensed for dissection; and then of course the place would be sanctioned by authority, and experiments would be performed there because it Avas licensed to have experiments performed there.. I do not mean to say that that is the best way. I do not presume to say that I have thought the matter out enough. 174. I rather uuderstood you to say that the cases in Avhich vivisection ought to be practised are com- paratively rare ?—Yes. •175. That wherever the . thing has been clearly established already, you would never have vivisection performed merely for the purpose of confirming Avhat has been satisfactorily established ?—That is my opinion; that Avherc experiments, have been performed already, or a point of physiology has been ascertained, the experiments should not be permitted. I do not think that an experiment should be repeated over and over again in our medical schools for illustrating what is already established. 176. But I also understood you to say that the person who does make these experiments should be a practised anatomist, and should not be allowed to do it till he has a considerable degree of scientific skill ? —I think lie ought to be a man who has considerable scientific skill and knowledge of those branches of science, anatomy ahd physiology in particular. 177. Would not that rather point to the person, Avho was licensed as you suggest, applying on behalf of himself personally rather than on behalf of any particular building in Avhich these experiments should be sanctioned ?—I do not mean to say that it might not be right and proper that an individual of that competent nature should be allowed to apply for leave to perform exj)eriments irrespective of their being performed at a particular place. 178. Then you think that leave might be given to allow experiments of this description to be performed at a particular place subject to the penalty of the withdrawal of the license on improper experiments being performed, or on their being improperly per- formed there ?—Yes,-it is a difficult question ; but I can conceive a case to arise Avhere a surgeon or a physician either might wish to do something in Avluch he would hke to haA-e his knoAvledge fortified by an experiment on an animal; and if he were to wait for application, say to the Secretary of State, and the Secretary of State has to refer to his inspector and to get his answer, the patient might die meantime. Such a case might arise ; I do not mean to say that it is likely to arise frequently, but if an experiment were deferred till all this correspondence had been gone](https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/b23983334_0038.jp2/full/800%2C/0/default.jpg)
